Hutchinson Leader - Story - Comments

I, me myself and I, think it

arcy — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 07:19:53 -0500

I, me myself and I, think it is debatable that a society that has used its "freedom" to do what it wants, as it feels, instead of following a common moral code is not working. When you say "moral" charlie_horse, whose moral code? Where did it come from? Under what authority? I believe the Founding Fathers acknowledge the supremacy of the God of Abraham and used His moral code i.e. the 10 commandments as their guide when they developed our Constitution. I do not stand alone in this belief. I believe God trumps any other ideas on "morals". I believe the Constitution's "separation of Church and State" was to PROTECT my beliefs not impede them. Too many people today really need to READ the document. It does not say Religion is evil it says I get to follow my beliefs and no government law will stand in the way of that. To ensure this, the government will not pick ONE religion and espouse it. Because we say Merry Christmas, or post the original inspiration for the Constitution (10 commandments) on a lawn DOES NOT MEAN the Government is "FORCING" religion. The Constitution attempted to ENSURE we were FREE to EXERCISE religion. It's "Freedom OF Religion" not freedom FROM religion. Happy 4th of July. God Bless America!!

Thanks, Raymond. It is

Matt McMillan — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:29:57 -0500

Thanks, Raymond. It is fascinating to read and listen to historians who study the founders. The John Adams series on HBO last year was also excellent. That series was based on a book, perhaps by McCullough, too.

It showed how well respected Pres. George Washington was to the country, and how Hamilton and Adams had different points of view regarding the size and authority of the federal government. Washington played mediator between the two during his time in office.

Think of the time lag of information at that time. No Associated Press wire service, no Internet, no overnight delivery. It was horseback. It was a miracle they could get people from different parts of the country together to make any kind of timely decisions.

Matt & Doug: Nice editorial

Raymond Norton — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 09:29:23 -0500

Matt & Doug:

Nice editorial on our nation's independence! Another book I highly recommend is 1776 by David McCullough. It demonstrates what a miracle it was that we even made it to the day of declaring our independence! It is a very fascinating and fast read!

It is clear to me that

darwinball — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:22:36 -0500

It is clear to me that people judge for themselves what is moral and what is wrong. As a secular humanist, I decide what is right or wrong by trying to determine what will provide the best outcome for the greatest number of people; that is, minimizing harm and promoting the general welfare. Some religious people agree with me on moral issues and have reached their conclusions based on what they think their diety would want. I don't see where the Christian or Jewish holy books provide the framework for our democracy. They do not prescribe democracy, equal rights for women, or capitalism. They tacitly endorse slavery, subjugation of women, genocide, and brutality. They list ten commandments, only three of which are codified in US laws (murder, theft, and perjury). Clearly, the "Judeo-Christian" beliefs have evolved along with our society, and all people make their own determinations about right and wrong.

How much further down in the

Raymond Norton — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:54:02 -0500

How much further down in the Constitution after “We the people” will I find the part about separation of church and state? Just kidding, we both know the Constitution says no such thing.

For years the courts have gotten away with using “separation of church and state” to squash anything that references God in government, and entities that uses government money. It is immensely obvious this was not the case in the past. We have the name of God on our money, in our court rooms, government buildings, and in our pledge of allegiance. Forget about any of that today, but it does go to show that Congress, and courts of the past did not always see the Constitution in the same light as it is currently viewed today. Nothing is unanimous in a Republic, but it is very easy to see there has been a definite departure from the true intent of the framers of the Constitution. It is amazing how many new rights, and restrictions we are finding hidden between the written words. The “right to privacy”, for one; the anchor to “Roe vs Wade”. Personally, I want privacy, and don't want people snooping into my affairs any more than anyone else, but I am not going to find it written in the Constitution.

There is much talk here of what (Bible) Christians are and are not, and the harm they cause by the view points they hold, but I have yet to see anything posted here today that supports those claims. The serious Christians I know, love their country, are the most tolerable people you will find anywhere, and are always the first to help people in need. They are also very thankful for our Judeo-Christian heritage that helped shape our founding documents; the very fabric and definitive core of our Nation

Arcy, I never said it was

charlie_horse113 — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:22:21 -0500

Arcy, I never said it was not working. I see the glass half full, more often than not, I see it almost full. I just said we need to quit being a country torn by the 2 party system and think for ourselves. I don't know who said it, but I do believe if you threw all the politicians in a bag and pulled one out you could not tell one from the other. I am trying not to get too worked up by any one and maintain my faith in the people of America. And I am not sure exactly how President Obama's words are dismantling the Constitution. Dismantling the Constitution is making amendments such as the flag burning one. We need to defend our freedoms at all costs. Words don't do on their own. It is the passing of laws that restrict our rights that will cause the downfall of this great nation. Words stimulate conversation and conversation is how we learn about each other and each other's beliefs.

The Constitution also

fromhutchnowaway — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:13:06 -0500

The Constitution also mentions all men are created equal and the seperation of church and state.

I believe that you do not need to follow every word in the Bible to the letter to be called a Christian. Let's remember everything the Bible says we are not to do, that many people who call themselves Christians do. One of which I can think of is eating shell fish.

You have only quoted one line on the Constitution "We the People of the United States" further down it mentions what I mentioned earlier. Those lines I mentioned are the ones that are most important. That we treat every citizen of the USA with the same equal rights as we do our neighbor with no discrimination on gender, disability, race, or orientation. That is what this country is founded on also, freedom to be who you are.

Arcy, your are correct but

UncleTed — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 09:48:19 -0500

Arcy, your are correct but please remember there are exceptions to every rule/guideline. In this case, a person with deep pockets is willing to toss some money at an artist to buy a picture. Deep Pockets knows the person who owns the corner building and received the okay for the picture. Deep Pockets is also a former member of the Table of Power and thus gets the pity vote for the guady/distracting art. Is it right? That's just the way it is. We need to get used to the idea. Look at it this way, it will look better than Tumble Weed Park (formerly known as Girl Scout Park) across the street. Who came up with the lame idea to put 1001 bushes in that park rather than create a green area with a couple of picnic tables?

I think my point is that

arcy — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 09:18:18 -0500

I think my point is that what you just said..IT ISN'T WORKING.

Well, I am thankful that

charlie_horse113 — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 07:38:07 -0500

Well, I am thankful that that statement includes moral people as well as religious because putting all ones faith in the adequacy of the government in religion could be tricky at best. I mean just what religion? Even among the Christian religions there is enough difference to cause one enough confusion. And whether or not you like it, the world has changed and we now know about many other powerful religions that the founding fathers did not. Could it be that those great thinkers would have had different views had they been exposed to Hindus, Islam, Judaism, with the open, more accepting minds of today? By promoting only Christian as the religion that is fit to lead in this country, to me, you turn off more people than you include. Any arguement that uses God or the Bible as a "reason" for or against something, to me steps outside the Constitution. Luckily the founders set rules to separate the two. Eerily almost like they foresaw the future that included many people of many faiths.
So quit saying that all is going to hell in a handbasket just because things are different than the beginning of this country. Embrace that others might enrich, not destroy, this country we all love. Keep open minds and don't let the 2 party system get you so caught up in one side or the other that you forget to think for yourself and not a political party.

Does the Mural follow the

arcy — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 06:32:45 -0500

Does the Mural follow the guidelines? It isn't posted on line but in Tuesday's paper there was an article about signs, the laws and regulations concerning advertising signs. My question from the beginning is how does this proposed "mural" (advertisement for the town) fit into those regulations? I seem to remember a year or more ago one business was told their proposed sign was too big,thus gaudy and distracting. It couldn't have been bigger than this proposed monstrosity.

“Our Constitution was made

arcy — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 06:20:22 -0500

“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” This says it all and explains all of our ills. Was Obama right? I pray not but I fear he was. Be afraid people, be very afraid. The road we have chosen does not lead to any where I want to go.

Congress makes law, not the

Raymond Norton — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:29:18 -0500

Congress makes law, not the President! Many accusations have been made by the left that the Bush Administration acted unconstitutionally in protecting the USA from another terrorist attack (This was all done in love of course). Thus far, none of the law-suites filed, or criminal complaints have been successful in proving this. There is always hope though:)

President Obama is correct when he says "We are not a Christian nation". We certainly have a huge population of Christians, but the things we embrace as a nation, and the laws passed today certainly do not find there foundation in the Bible. However, he is dead wrong when he and others say our country was not founded on Judeo-Christian values!

It is interesting the continual battle we have over this subject in our nation, yet you can go to just about any other nation in the world, and ask "Was/Is America a Christian nation"? The response will always be a resounding "yes"! At least the people from other nations that hate us think so:)

As far as the hateful right goes, statistics show they are charitable, happy, and well informed on the issues. They give 30% more in charitable contributions than liberals, donate more of their time for worthy causes, give more blood than liberals, and are likely to stand up for the unborn.

I'm starting to see what you mean about those devils.

Please define what you mean

just1opinion — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:14:13 -0500

Please define what you mean by 'I consider myself a Christian'. Does that mean you follow the teachings of Christ and study the Word of God to know for yourself how to properly apply Biblical principles in your everyday life so you can live a life pleasing to Him? Or does it simply mean you 'believe there is a god' and you even go to church sometimes?

Bush put many laws into

charlie_horse113 — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:34:12 -0500

Bush put many laws into place after 911 for "security" that took away the right of privacy for law-abiding citizens. It is hypocritical of us to push democracy and then not practice it. President Obama simply stated a fact that we are moving away from the JudeoChristian foundation. A fact that has been presented in the media for quite awhile. More and more young people as well as older adults are seeing the far right and its hateful, non-inclusive policies as something they no longer want a part of. I myself believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit but I don't think they would be all upset by a president that wants to show inclusive policies. Just remember, the far right of ANY religion pulls its group off the track of the middle ground.